Behind the Treasury Headlines: A Journalist's View of 20 Years in Treasury

It's become more strategic, I think, is kind of the headline view. When I first started, no one actually really knew what was going on in the treasury sector.

Well, I do think that

A PwC survey found that 74% of treasurers were using or expanding AI, so that's really positive, but only 26% of those considered their capabilities moderately or very mature. I think there's huge interest amongst treasurers about what AI could do, and there's some use cases, practical adoption, that is happening. The answers are there. It's starting to get connected with what treasurers actually need.

That's a really good question. I think

That's quite an existential question. Thanks so much for having me on the podcast, Phil. Appreciate you taking the time to have a chat with me today. So, like you mentioned, I'm a journalist, editor, interviewer, and I specialize in corporate treasury and finance. So, this year marks the 20th anniversary of me covering the industry from a journalist perspective, and I've worked as a freelance journalist for the past 15 of those years. I'd say most of my work involves speaking to treasurers or banks or technology companies that are in this space, and then finding the clearest or maybe most interesting way to tell the stories that they have. I think treasurers might be surprised the kind of the stories that they're creating within their own department and within their organization. It might just feel like the day-to-day job for them or as or a project or something like that. There's a wealth of stories kind of happening in every treasury department in every company. So, I tell those through a variety of different means. So, it could be in a long-form feature, a case study article, could be a podcast interview like this. I suppose I particularly enjoy getting beneath the technical language and really finding out the change that people in the businesses they're involved with have been able to create.

that's a really good question. I think it's become more strategic, I think is kind of the headline view when I first started, there was quite a well-identified issue that sometimes treasury was seen as being in an ivory tower and kind of separate a bit from the business, a bit remote. No one actually really knew perhaps what was going on in the treasury sector. It's like are they accountants? Well, they're not accountants. Well, they're doing something like So, I think that visibility and going back almost to when I started, you know, I think the credit crunch and then the global financial crisis that followed was a real big trigger in getting that spotlight more on treasury because when a CEO or a CFO is reading the daily news and is like, "Oh my god, do we have exposure to any of these businesses that are tanking at the moment? Who do I know in the business that has that visibility to see if I've got that exposure?" Often, that's the treasurer. So, that was kind of the That kickstarted, I suppose, that journey into being a more strategic role.

Yeah, that seems to be like that was the big rock that was thrown in the lake and then the ripples and the rebounds from that still seem to be with us today and more frequent than ever.

Conflicts and just things that you can't predict, but you know, need to build in to several different scenarios and just being able to have answers for when the unexpected happens. You have to kind of expect the unexpected today.

Well, I think it's really interesting. I don't think you've been able to read a treasury website or a magazine in the last 18 months, 2 years without AI kind of dominating the topic. I think there's huge interest amongst treasurers about what AI could do and there's some use cases and practical adoption that is happening. That is maybe not as quick as the headlines suggest, you know, I would look at something like one of the most obvious use cases for AI in treasury is around cash flow forecasting. That's still one of treasurers kind of main pain points. I was reading the EACT, the European Association of Corporate Treasurers, annual survey from this year and cash flow forecasting remains kind of the most the biggest priority for treasurers and it has done, I think at least the last six editions, seven editions of that annual survey. So, this year 52% of respondents said that cash flow forecasting was their first or second biggest kind of concern and the same survey found that there is high interest in AI, but almost half, 46% of treasurers still required manual workarounds for things like long-term forecasting. So, I think the answers are there and it's starting to get connected with what treasurers actually need. There's obviously the existing infrastructure that treasury has. Have they got the right data available, visibility connected across the business and kind of the footprint of the organization. A PwC survey that I was looking at earlier today found that 74% of treasurers were using or expanding AI, so that's really positive, but only 26% of those considered their capabilities moderately or very mature. So, it is, you know, at the start of that journey. So, I think the interest is definitely there and it's a topic that will be writing about for more years to come. It's not something that's solved this year, that's for sure.

Well, I think when it comes to identifying the challenges that treasurers have when they look to implement AI, like I mentioned, you know, poor or incomplete source data is an issue. The tech stack can be a problem because companies, depending on their size, will have vast numbers of ERP systems potentially, and they throw in a treasury management system into the mix, and getting everything connected, particularly if you've had like a merger or acquisition, you've just taken on a lot of legacy technology from the company that you were kind of absorbing, then it's kind of I suppose the business units actually getting consistency across the submissions that's coming in from different business units. Things like unrecorded commercial decisions can be a real kind of a pain for treasurers if they don't know something actually happened, it's very hard to actually then plan around that. I suppose also just making sure that in the treasury department, there's the talent to actually work with that new technology that's coming in as well. So, maybe having a refresher course or a learning course to make sure you might be able to operate a treasury management system absolutely perfectly, but what does bringing an AI level on top of that actually mean, and how can you make the most of that new technology rather than just I suppose repeating the processes that you already have in that model., in an automated-by-AI fashion.

I think that's a general point for treasury in terms of being able to communicate well with the rest of the business. Also helps raise the visibility of the treasury function because a lot of I suppose treasury terms can sound quite scary or kind of complicated from the outside, but it might just be the language that we're using to describe a more simple process. So, just being aware of that and being able to translate almost to the business.

Yeah, well, exactly. Juggling some terms and phrases into slightly more palatable, readable content is quite an important part of the job.

Yeah, it's kind of business as usual is to expect that sort of disruption. I know that ACT in the UK had a debt and treasury research report this year where almost three quarters, 72% of treasurers said that macro economic and geopolitical disruption was business as usual with further disruption expected. So, everyone's kind of on this, for want of a better phrase, war footing in treasury. Like, what's next? You know, so that really, I think, makes the day-to-day treasury management more complicated in some ways because it's that's not just your own focus. You've got to be maybe implementing more scenarios into the forecasting that you're doing. Kind of almost daring to think the unthinkable. What happened if we suddenly had a complete sort of lack of liquidity? What do in that situation because external pressures can create that, you know? I think, as we said, the global financial crisis was the biggest example of that. Suddenly, unthinkable things were happening in companies that weren't able to get on top of those quickly paid the price. So, I think that's been just a huge kind of teachable moment for treasurers. The savviness of today's treasurer is much higher than it used to be.

That's a really interesting thought experiment. Well, I think, obviously, they'd bring very different perspectives. Someone that's 30 years in treasury has probably managed through several crises and knows what happens when liquidity comes under pressure or markets stop behaving as expected. That's kind of experience that you can't replicate, so that's incredibly valuable to an organization that has a treasurer that's been through all that. Whereas someone that's entering the profession today might not have that experience, but maybe they are more comfortable with the new technology or have a mindset to be more inclined to ask why a process still takes 3 days or depends on a spreadsheet when it's like for them that might seem very archaic, perhaps. So, I think the experienced treasurer can provide context and judgment in that conversation, and the newcomer is kind of the disruptor and sort of challenge ways of working that maybe everyone else is used to and it's kind of fallen into a pattern a little bit. They're kind of they can come along and say, "Hey, why don't we think about looking at it like this?" It might be that's not the right way to look at it and then that experience can kind of come back to that. Both ends of the spectrum have a huge amount to add to today's treasury department.

Today it's a theoretical question. I think it's interesting. Sometimes I get a chance to do a bit of a deep dive into a treasury department. What I find really interesting in those moments is speaking to a group treasurer about, you know, their approach to hiring and the new people that they're bringing in and there's kind of the skills they're looking for, but they will also often tell me in those conversations, "Well, yes, these people have the kind of the tech skills, but it's the mindset. It's the way that they're thinking that's slightly different to what we're used to. It's that disruption that I think you need to question how you're working every now and again. Don't just fall into a routine because it's easy. That's just how we get through the day and then we'll start tomorrow. We start with that thing and then it goes to that." Having someone come in and question, you know, and not be afraid to actually ask the question. So, you it's kind of a cultural point as well. You need that environment where it's okay to ask questions. Actually, this is why we do it this way. And that is an interesting perspective, but that doesn't work specifically for us. But we'll, you know, that's something to keep in mind for a future occasion.

I mean, that's a big question. I think there's a lot of interest in the topic of real-time treasury and just kind of the tools that can help support that. That ACT survey I mentioned earlier had a lot of interesting evidence around treasury innovations that are generating the greatest interest in the next year or two. And real-time reporting and dashboards was very high up on that response with 63% saying that was something that was very important to them. Real-time liquidity had almost half of the respondents saying that was a key interest for them, 49%. And real-time payments and collections at 41%. So, clearly having the tech to support real-time, if you like. I think the interesting point is around whether real-time information actually leads to real-time decisions for treasurers. And I'm not sure that's necessarily the case. a treasurer doesn't need to react to every time a data point changes. Otherwise, I think we'd all go mad if that was the case. I think what matters is being able to see a complete and reliable position when a decision has to be made. You know, so if an unexpected payment creates an intraday liquidity shortfall, that speed is really valuable. A funding or hedging decision may still require discussion and judgment. So, I suppose the real goal is information on demand. I know that's something that we've spoken about before, rather than real-time, kind of on demand. So, current enough to act on and something that's coherent enough to trust and is presented in a way that helps treasurers actually make the right decision.

So, I think it is that kind of understanding the truth about the technology that's out there and obviously marketing departments do great jobs at banks and at technology departments in terms of promoting their solutions, but I mean, a lot of the banks and tech companies that I speak to are actually interested in understanding what the problems are that treasurers are having and trying to find the right solutions for those and not just, I suppose, putting out, "This is our solution. You deal with our solution." It's not our solution adapting to your situation sort of thing. So, I think that's something that's changed, I think, maybe over the 20 years that I've been doing this, that willingness to listen and actually maybe collaborate and co-create with businesses and with treasury functions to ensure

Yeah, absolutely, because I think they see the value in that and it might be, particularly with a very large organization, if the vendor comes up with a new bespoke tool that works really well for that treasury organization, there's a benefit to them of being okay, well, we've never done anything like this before, but now we have that capability and we can look at how we can market that to other corporations. So, I think there's win almost there. The treasury side is getting something that's tailored to what they're working on. On the flip side, the vendor is getting something that they can then market to other businesses and kind of make a pipeline of new business out of that, if you like. So, it's kind of mutual and that's something that's changed, I think, particularly in the last 10 years.

I think that's kind of goes through cycles a little bit. You go through a moment where suddenly there's lots of startup TMS providers or just specifically maybe cash forecasting side of things. You get a lot pop out and then, you know, the circle of life, a lot get acquired, a lot get kind of sucked into some of like the two or three bigger global platforms. You know, go a couple of years on and it that need, that gap in the market is palpable because those disruptors have been taken out, if you like. So, I think that seems quite natural over the time that I've been writing about treasury, I've seen that cycle at least three times happen, I think. And when you bring newer technology in terms of like the AI stuff as well, I think that's interesting, you know, is a treasury going to go with a bespoke AI provider? Are they going to look at if their TMS provider is integrating AI into the areas that they want or do they have to go outside and get a an independent tool? Then that's another integration risk potentially to plug in. So, there's all these questions going around and I think like most things, it kind of depends on your organization the approach to take, but I think there's maybe more on the tech side for treasurers to think about than there ever has been.

Well, I think it's just being clear in communication. That's a very important point. Just being able to demonstrate why what you've created actually would make a difference to a treasury team. You know, not here is the answer to your cash forecasting woes. I mean, treasurers have heard that a million times before, you know, but it's kind of getting into the nitty-gritty, identifying issues that are common amongst a lot of corporations, and being able to eloquently communicate why what you're creating is something that can help with that. And again, I think the collaborative side of that is quite important. Being able to listen to what potential clients might be interested in, I think it's important. When it comes to being eloquent, Phil, I mean, you've got that covered, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Yeah, absolutely.

Exactly. It was kind of one stop on the tour of the finance department. You needed a tick in each box to say, "Oh, I've done 6 months in treasury. I've done 6 months in accounting." and kind of build your profile like that. I do think that treasury has become more attractive as a almost like a final destination for your career. It's something to aspire to because, as we've been saying, it is much closer to the strategic center of the business. So, liquidity, funding, currency risk, sort of financial resilience, they've all become board level questions. So, treasury is increasingly involved in shaping decisions, rather than just processing the financial consequences of those decisions. So, I do think that, you know, group treasurer can be a career destination in its own right. I suppose the profession's remaining challenge is visibility. Many people would find the work compelling if they actually understood how broad and commercially influential it has become. So, it's possibly another opportunity to get that story out there, that role and what a kind of a goal it could be for a career in the space of finance.

I'm afraid me and numbers, we don't we're not very compatible. Me and words, yes. Me and numbers, not so much. Yes, the treasury profession is better with me on the sidelines reporting rather than being in the middle of it.

That's an interesting question. I think it probably comes back to the communication point again. Sorry to keep harping on about this, but I think treasury can still struggle to explain its value outside the profession. And like I said, it could be easy to be absorbed in technical language and assume that everyone understands why a specific project matters. The way the business is usually more interested in that practical outcome, you know, whether the company has more cash available, can manage risk better, or can make decisions with greater confidence. So, I think treasury often has a much stronger story than to tell sometimes the one it actually puts across. I think they're getting better. Treasury is getting a lot better at that, and that's part of the process of how more strategic the role has become. I think there's more to do there potentially.

That's a great report for the CFO to start with. Obviously, promoting the good work that treasury does is something that can be in reports to the CFO and to other parts of the business. I think trying to get involved in maybe like association conferences and stuff, and being able to tell your story on stage is very powerful. Obviously, there's many different awards programs if you look at all the different treasury management publishers that are out there. Every single one has an awards program at some point in the year, so you can always be looking for new opportunities to promote successful project. Often, you know, maybe a tech partner or a banking partner will come to you with those opportunities, but you don't need to wait for those parts of the project to come to you. You can actually kind of do your own due diligence and see what awards are out there. And that's something that I get involved with quite often in my job, kind of writing case studies or recording, you know, podcasts with treasurers to explain exactly what they've been through. And I think that's a really interesting thing with the treasury community. It's quite close-knit and it's not really that competitive. People are excited when you have a success. They're happy to kind of celebrate that, but also look at how what you've done in a project could actually be reflected back onto their own internal processes and if there's ways they can improve. So, I think that sort of support, just kind of celebrating the great wins the treasury has is really important.

Yeah, I'm always happy to speak to treasurers. It's kind of my favorite part of the job is actually speaking to treasurers, hearing about what they've been up to and obviously maybe suggesting ways that they can tell their stories on a broader canvas. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, you can find me on LinkedIn. I've got a website ben-hayden-poole.com. So, contact details are all there if you need to.

Yes.

Poole, which is p-o-o-l-e. So, like swimming pool but with an e on the end. .com.

I think it needs updating a little bit, but

I think that's a good point, and it's something we touched on, you know, treasury is being brought into important decisions earlier in the business, and its value is being better understood after those several years where core topics of liquidity, funding, and risk have really been out of the spotlight. So, I'm also encouraged by the people that are coming into the profession as well. Like we mentioned earlier, kind of having that technology almost intuitively way of looking at how things work from treasurers coming in now will always have had a smartphone from when they were little to today, which is something that you and I That's not our experience. That's something that's come along mid-journey for us. So, they are comfortable with technology. They're willing to question established processes. I think also have quite a keen business savvy as well, you know, quite a humorous, but shows like The Apprentice just kind of raise that kind of way of thinking about the business. And a great thing about a show like that is that most people on it fail incredibly badly, and it's a kind of a cautionary tale of what not to do in the business. So, I think that's something that new entrants into the world of treasury have in spades, and you know, that combination should give treasury departments more time for analysis and also a stronger voice in how companies make their decisions. So, I think there's a lot to be positive and optimistic about.

Obviously, I'm not a practitioner as we mentioned earlier, so take anything that I say with a pinch of salt. But, I think it's obviously important to learn the fundamentals, but also understand how the company actually makes and spends money, you know, so ask questions, including ones that might feel very basic. I mentioned, you know, treasury can hide quite simple ideas behind very complicated language. I guess also build relationships outside finance as the information that treasury needs often sits elsewhere in the business. So, don't be kind of siloed in one place. And stay curious about technology while also on the flip side having that sort of slightly cynical edge of questioning what can it really deliver for you? And then yeah, just the communication point again that we've mentioned because good judgment has much more influence in the business when you can actually explain it as well, I think.

I think my one thing would be keep coming back to the problem you're actually trying to solve. You know, treasury has no shortage of complicated language, systems, products, and claims about innovation. But I think after 20 years of interviewing people across the industry, the projects that really stay with me are the ones where somebody can explain in plain language what the problem was and what changed as a result. I think that clarity leads to better decisions and kind of helps the wider business understand treasury's value. And also gives you a sensible way to judge whether a new technology has really worked. So, keep asking the simple questions, I'd say, because very often those are the ones that actually get you to the real answer.

Ah, it's been fantastic. Thanks so much for having me on, Phil.

Fantastic. Thanks so much for your time, Phil. Speak to you soon.